I am guessing if they would have stayed small, they would have fared better. It's a shame. Having a union is the only way to keep profit sharing in place, said Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, which is launching a Like It? Americans is a kiddie-size pool. Just because an employee of a competing company has a better deal than me doesn't mean I should complain about it. Pilots at Delta retained their existing profit-sharing program in bargaining with the company that led to a four-year contract at the end of 2016. The pilot's negotiated the deal back during bankruptcy when their pensions were terminated.
The unions expressly voted for a small percentage raise rather than continuing profit sharing, effecting the whole company. This is exactly how American's management views decision making so atleast they are all aligned. Furthermore, part of the reason that Delta has such generous profit sharing is because they generate higher profits. Unlike individual incentive plans, profit-sharing plans are typically based on corporate profits rather than individual performance and payable to all employees in major work groups. 
At the same time, it sure seems to me like airline pilot pay is once again getting unsustainably high.
Tad santino , Thank you ! After all, those "other" front line employees actually interact with the flying public more than anyone else at the airline. All rights reserved. Pilot pay is NOT back to pre 9/11 pay, especially when inflation is considered. Lock It In Delta union organizing campaign timed to coincide with Valentines Day and the Delta payout. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Didn't read all the comments, so if someone said this, sorry: 1. Our pilots want to not only talk but also we insist on seeing our operations leadership recognized and properly aligned with the financial success of our company like Delta pilots have been for years, he said. I was on a flight from CDG to DFW Where did you hear that only "a small minority of senior captains" make $200,000+? If any of a variety of factors occurs, airlines wont be able to sustain these pay rates, and theyll be back to where they were before. Let's face it, a pilot is more important(and much more highly trained) than a gate agent. Brian Kropp, a group vice president at Gartner, the global research firm, said only 12 percent of the companies its firms work with have profit-sharing plans. I know it's not always possible and the magnitude is going to be significantly different, but if you're that worried that top management is getting too much, then you should negotiate to have your payment structured in a way that's similar to top management. But when unions bargain for profit sharing, they can bargain for a larger share of the pie, Blasi said. Strong demand, mild fuel prices help Delta earn $1.1 billion. American and former US Airways crew do not get along either. 2. It's just pathetic that their salaries are so low. Thats one of the many reasons why we believe our direct relationship with our flight attendants delivers more for them, the spokesperson said. Many spent years as a first officer at a modest wage. I expect a small percentage of all pilots to be captains with significant experience supporting both your arguments. Patrick Clarke, An Exclusive Experience for Adults-Only: The Club at Majestic Resorts
Then my connecting flight to Miami the junior FAs were grouchy as well Astronomic CEO pay is another story, however. Theyre currently bargaining with the airline over a new collective bargaining contract, along with other employees at the top four U.S. airlines.
Atlanta-basedDelta, which cut employees' pay last year amid a steep decline in travel due to the COVID-19 pandemic, is giving managers, directors and and senior vice presidents one-time payouts ranging from thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those who make more are deemed more important to the airline. I am guessing if they would have stayed small, they would have fared better. If you leave AA to go to DL, you start at the bottom as a first officer on first year pay with the worst possible schedule commuting to a city far from home. Your Facebook information, including your name, photo & any other personal data you make public on Facebook will appear with your comment, and may be used on TravelPulse.com. Regardless of your profession, when "another" company in your industry raises the total payroll bar, you likely will eventually benefit. I blessed to be married for 29 years and have a strong foundational Faith that has kept our marriage and family close . I worked at American through the merger. First year pay at most airlines was quite low and only recently improved. Obviously more of your relative pay is going to come in the form of salary, but if your C-suite executives have incentives tied to financial and stock performance then it's probably not a bad idea to make sure you have that exposure as well. Were doing it because we will always always choose to share the success of the company with the people who make it all possible, Bastian said in a statement. Stay connected with the latest travel, aviation, and credit card news. If youre curious, here are the pilot pay rates for American, Delta, and United. I know how long it took him to get to where he is. 2022 The Bureau of National Affairs, Inc. 2022 The Bureau of National Affairs, Inc. All Rights Reserved, Largest U.S. Airlines Have Big Bargaining Year Ahead in 2020, Delta Air Lines Targeted by Another Union Organizing Drive (1), Deltas Second Try Reaps Pilot Labor Deal That May Pinch Rivals, Most Delta employees receive payout of 16.7% of salary, No certainty without contract, flight attendants union says. Let's not hijack the post. I homeschooled my girls to have more family time. In the auto industry, its about creating a work system that will help drive productivity and innovation, he said. Deltasaid that plan does not apply to the current management bonuses. 3. And if I can't stand it that someone else is getting a better deal then I'd better start looking for a new job. How is this even news? Click here to learn more. American Pilots Are Angry That Delta Employees Got Big Profit Sharing Bonuses, American Flight Attendants Want Service Reductions (Update: Cuts Coming), American Airlines Passenger Breaks Into Cockpit, Damages Flight Controls, American Airlines Adds Lounge Access For Hawaii Flights, Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners, A Delta captain will get a payout of $29,000 to $59,000 (wow! We raised our two daughters with him being gone most of the time. Join ALG Vacations for our brand-new podcast, For more information on Man, the world has certainly evolved. The 90th percentile median wage for all pilots within the US is USD193000/annum. I know it's not always possible and the magnitude is going to be significantly different, but if you're that worried that top management is getting too much, then you should negotiate to have your payment structured in a way that's similar to top management. Experience 007s London This Summer With American With the US Dollar Now Valued Better Than the Euro, Is This the Time To Go to Europe? I'd be embarrassed to be an AA pilot right now. 2. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC. So a fleet service clerk like me with over 30 years of service gets about 500 dollars after tax. Hotel Xcaret Arte Blog, 'Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives' Remains the Ultimate Road Trip Inspiration Why SpiceJets Aircraft Are Losing Their Way, American Airlines Flight Forced to Make Emergency Landing in Charlotte After Take-Off, In the Houston Area, Two of America's Biggest Low-Cost Carriers are Expanding Their Footprint, Johnstown Airports Passenger Numbers Dropped in June, In the Houston Area, Two of Americas Biggest Low-Cost Airlines Are Expanding Their Footprint. American Airline Pilots are employed at a company that generates lower profits than its competitors. The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered. Pilots are the only major employee group at Deltathe second-largest U.S. airline after American Airlinesthats represented by a union. The management bonuses also come as airlines get billions of dollars in federal stimulus funding and push for passage of American Rescue Plan legislation including billions more in airline aid. All planes except maybe the first half of 737s would have had PTE and the experience he was going for was premium market. Just ask a pilot a pilots wife and family. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. AA pilots should be very happy. Travel Agent, Copyright 2022 Northstar Travel Media, LLC. One in particular scolded at me like a child because I raised the isle arm rest to side out of the seat At one I came out slightly ahead of where I'd have been for the drop in salary and at another I came out slightly behind. Go All-In on the Fun at Hotel Xcaret Arte, 'Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives' Remains the Ultimate Road Trip Inspiration, An Exclusive Experience for Adults-Only: The Club at Majestic Resorts, 19 Hidden Travel Fees to Watch Out for This Summer, Video Shows Huge Fight Break Out on Cruise Ship Injuring Multiple People, Flying With Weed: TSA Marijuana Rules Explained, 21 Amazing Vacation Ideas for Big Families, The Top 20 Most Powerful Travel Agencies in 2022. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ).
Deltas flight attendants received the best profit sharing in the industry for more than a decade with no negotiations needed.
This is what happens when every kid grows up getting a trophy regardless if they win or lose. Sheesh, what a bunch of petty whiners. The airline in the final quarter of 2017 restored the formula for all employees. Those for the regional carriers are significantly lower and starting salaries are absurdly low. Just because an employee of a competing company has a better deal than me doesn't mean I should complain about it. Delta workers to receive profit-sharing payouts worth 2 months pay, In The Displacements, a hurricane turns the rich into refugees. Group of top CEOs says maximizing shareholder profits no longer can be the primary goal of corporations. Research the practices for other corporations before signing on the line. Features & Advice, The Top 20 Most Powerful Travel Agencies in 2022
If AA pilots are upset, then there are a couple of things to look at. 2022 www.detroitnews.com. Airlines & Airports, Delta Air Lines Reportedly Offered Passengers $10,000 To @ Amir Friedman -- Not sure where you're getting your info, but *all* American 737 captains and above make way over $200K per year. Marriott Bonvoy Boundless Card Review (3 Free Nights). Corporations should be upfront with compensation and benefits. There is no realistic way to "jump ship" and choose a different mainline pilot job, as you would start at the bottom of the seniority list, which affects not only pay, but the airplane you fly, what city you are based in, what days you work, what your everyday schedule looks like. I live in Dallas and am tired of hearing about how the poor pilots are treated. Most started their careers in the military or a low paying regional (sacrifice). I am a current delta pilot and most are just now making the numerical amount they made in 2000, non adjusted. My husband is an Airline Captain and we met the day he stepped into flight school. Profit sharing as a % is a completely fair way, as opposed to a lump sum per employee. Either way!
Rich Thomaselli
They work and are not paid any different on Christmas or any other holiday. Jumping ship after 25 years at a company is not the answer. when they got the new contract and did not really look to the future. As for AA pilots whining about Delta's profit sharing $$ amount, perhaps AA should generate a larger profit before complaining? She noted that while the $1.6 billion payout is the largest in the companys history, on a percentage basis it is among the biggest but not the highest ever. Oh, and those 29" pitch seats (yes, they are 29" because my knees are touching and I'm 5'8" is also a factor in why people are moving to other airlines. 
The CARES Act funding for airlines included limits on executive compensation that applied to officers and others with total compensation above certain thresholds. A pilot is much more difficult to replace than a cleaner. What's not to say that DL's profits tank in the near future, then AA pilots are much better off with a guaranteed 8% in their pockets. Were doing it because we will always always choose to share the success of the company with the people who make it all possible, Bastian said in a statement. Unionsparticularly those representing workers in the airline and auto industriesare starting to focus more on profit sharing as a way to boost compensation for their members, said Joseph Blasi, director of Rutgers Universitys Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing. Our book critics help you find new authors or genres to dive into.
Airlines & Airports, Takeaways From Delta Air Lines Quarterly Earnings Thats the reality. A straight % works. Delta Air Lines banner year propelled by lower fuel prices, higher travel demand and no sidelined Boeing 737 Max planes in its fleet led the carrier to beat earnings estimates and notch its 10th consecutive profitable year. If AA pilots are upset, then there are a couple of things to look at. They clearly deserve a bonus check for their hard work and dedication to the company. Youve gotta give Delta credit for how well they take care of their employees. Didn't read all the comments, so if someone said this, sorry: If an employee is unhappy, jump ship. American Airlines paid out $175 million in profit-sharing last year, or 1.5 percent of eligible earnings, spokeswoman Andrea Koos said in an email. To contact the reporter on this story: Louis C. LaBrecque in Washington at llabrecque@bloomberglaw.com, To contact the editors responsible for this story: Martha Mueller Neff at mmuellerneff@bloomberglaw.com; Karl Hardy at khardy@bloomberglaw.com, Learn more about a Bloomberg Law subscription, Log in to access all of your BLAW products.
Many spent years as a first officer at a modest wage. They got what they wanted and now they are pissed off again. Perhaps the more interesting story that has emerged here is how pilots at other airlines feel about this profit sharing. On one hand, airlines are greedy at the expense of passengers, so its not like I want them to keep more of their money and have bigger executives bonuses. Increasingly, he said, companies have shifted to more incentive-driven cash awards that are based on company, department and individual performance but may not be available to all employees. It's all a crap shoot, AA pilots need to be happy with their 8% raise. Opinions expressed here are the authors alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any of these entities. If an employee is unhappy, jump ship. Airlines & Airports, Delta Sends Empty Plane to Rescue Lost Luggage Also the pilots thought "Give me now!" ", It says the plan "provides that there is no payout to employees underDelta's broad-based profit sharing program for a plan year, any payout earned under the Plan by most management participants, including participants employed byDeltaas executive vice presidents or more senior officers, will not exceed the target award level and, for those executive officer participants, the payout will not be paid in cash, but in shares of restricted stock.". Thank you for recognizing what the life of an Airline Pilot is and the reality of their Job. What is clear is that corporates sms their whores in Congress will not gladly share money unless they are forced to. The pilots are king compared to everyone else (with the exception of the "C" suite) with the airline. Heres what a union representative had to say: The profit sharing pool at Delta is an Olympics size pool, Tajer said. And to talk about the average pay of pilots, or anything else similar, is a diversion from the point Ben is making. Aside from profit sharing, pilot pay at the three carriers is roughly comparable, with senior captains all making $323-330 per hour. See more about our ethics policies here.
This years pool translates into a 16.6 percent cash payout for eligible employees or about two months pay which will be paid out on Valentines Day. I'm not really sure what the anger is over. I live in Dallas and am tired of hearing about how the poor pilots are treated. Deltasaid it did not violate CARES Act provisions with the bonuses. The Delta logo at Kennedy Airport in New York City. Go All-In on the Fun at Hotel Xcaret Arte Union leadership brought a deal to the table that the pilots ratified, whose fault is that? Delta spokeswoman Savannah Huddleston said the carriers profit-sharing payout is available to all full-time, part-time or ready reserve employees other than officers and directors, who have a different compensation plan. American pilots want higher profit sharing even though the airline doesnt do as well, which to me largely misses the point. It could be argued that pilots have very little to do with greater or lesser profitability and revenue managers, gate agents and flight attendants should get higher profit shares because they have a much greater effect on the profit levels of the airline. Delta has paid more than $6.5 billion in profits to its employees over the past five years, which is also a record, the company said, adding that most employees will receive 16.7% of their salary in profit sharing based on the airlines 2019 financial results. There's a big difference there. A year ago the company paid out $1.6 billion in profit-sharing to employees, amounting to about two months of pay. End of story. Do you think American pilots have a valid complaint? Editorial Disclosure: The editorial content on this page is not provided by any entity mentioned herein. @Geoff And I may be oversimplifying the issue, but surely if American pilots are so unhappy there's nothing to stop them from jumping ship (so to speak) to Delta. I wasn't paying attention to the fact that you were specifically mentioning American Airlines salaries, not the industry as a whole. It was a negotiated way for the company to reduce pilot pay by many 10's %, but promise that when times are good, "we're good for it." You may use your Facebook account to add a comment, subject to Facebook's Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. Heres what Deltas CEO, Ed Bastian, had to say about the profit sharing: This is the fourth year in a row that Deltas profit sharing has topped $1 billion a milestone no company in history has ever achieved. In our corporation, profit sharing only occurs being a certain salary level with targets between 10-50%. Both were good risks to take and, in the end, I'm not much worse off that I would have been. I usually badmouth United for the way they treat their customers, but lately I've noted an improvement. They are getting what they negotiated for they should stop complaining until are on par to delta with respect to performance and service. They spend half each and every month away from home and family. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. Perhaps that's just me and it isn't meant to belittle pilots. And in turn may influence passengers to your airline. Forbes has an article about how American pilots are saying what about us? following yesterdays news. The delta pilots' contract has the verbiage that says "hey company, every employee is worth this trade, pay now for profit later." Not a happy group. Other than execs they are already the highest paid employees (and I understand why) but if anything it's time for the pilots to decide either they want base pay or incentives and if they want a hybrid then they should participate in a profit sharing program for all employees so that a FA, a gate agent and a baggage claim rep can also participate. Consumers (frequent fliers and the companies that need air transportation) are the ultimate source of these new high profits that are being distributed. Our industry-leading profit sharing and compensation philosophy reflects a decision we made a long time ago to share in the companys success each year with our people who make it possible. Though I'm sure a lot of the rhetoric from the union, is simply doing their job Those who make more are deemed more important to the airline.
Theres no certainty in the absence of a union contract, Nelson said. I'd be embarrassed to be an AA pilot right now. It seems unfair that the lowest paid (who would likely need it the most), receive the lowest bonus while the highest paid who likely need it the least receive the most. Not quite so much. Bastian did say that, due to increased costs not including fuel, he expects the airline to also take a loss in the first quarter of 2022. According to the story, heres how profit sharing at the big three US airlines differs for pilots: Not surprisingly, Americans pilot union (the Allied Pilots Association) wants to discuss higher profit sharing following yesterdays news.
Delta offering it, and paying out this much is truly different (and higher) than any other large company that we know of, Kropp said in an email. Delta employees in 2015 shared feedback that they would prefer less variability in their compensation, according to a company spokesperson. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. If they are upset with anyone it should be union leadership. How does everyone feel about the profit sharing being tied to wages (i.e. Corporations should be upfront with compensation and benefits. How US Airlines Rank for In-Flight Experience, Unprecedented Heat in England Impacting Flights. He pointed to the firms survey data that shows average cash bonus programs tend to range between 4.7 percent and 12.9 percent, depending on union, hourly or salaried professional work groups. I'd say that the gate agents, baggage personnel and maintenance folks (among others) are all as necessary to on time performance and profitability as the pilots, perhaps more so. Southwest Airlines paid out $544 million, or 10.8 percent of eligible employees compensation last year. How is it DL's employees' fault that DL is earning so much money??? So AA pilots are angry again. American is a horrid organization. The company says upper-level managers had bigger cuts in total compensation, since a greater share of their pay is at risk and dependent on the company's performance. Only a thin layer of total profits generated in the U.S. is shared with employees, and unions are in a position to boost that amount, he said. Union leadership brought a deal to the table that the pilots ratified, whose fault is that? Employees have gotten smaller "shared rewards" payments based on operational performance and travel passes.