Werewolves and Werebears are affected by both Weapon IAS and Outside IAS. There is new simpler to use Calculator for all chars in tools section. I'm not sure its pitchfork time just yet. It seems to me the solution is pretty simple if they want to keep the class viable and the mechanics more straightforward/clear. JavaScript is disabled. Edit: Maybe not From testing it seems that there's a cap to the maximum IAS and now that werewolf attack speed calculations have been fixed it's really easy to hit it. Oh, and Dragoon's calc is off on feral. With this change does feral benefit from non weapon +IAS bonuses on gear? I've been reading up on pumping up my summons with auras, was maybe thinking getting an act1 merc with faith so i don't have to worry about iron maiden killing her and what not, and maybe for myself if i somehow get my hands on a last wish phase blade, will I have to get IAS from off-weapon items for myself to be effective? Still, if a Werewolf has a low level WW, and extremely slow weapon, Off-Weapon IAS should help. Press J to jump to the feed.
Pretty much every viable Physical damage build relies on reaching the fastest breakpoint. Any of these changes seem less drastic then harming endgame high level druid play. There's a video someone posted here where they test weapon with attack speed +95% to +200% and the attack speed is always the same at least visually. As I said fury is the only attack now reaching any decent speed all other abilities frames are now trashed. the videos showing the changes are just atrociousdoesn't matter if you have Eth tomb reaver with 85 ias or wirts leg.The changes show the devs don't play/understand WW/WB at all, and killed the end game build to make those leveling in den of evil feel better, it's just absurdand the fact they replied to the feedback with saying it's working as intended and to just try out different weapons instead is hilarious and further proof of it. I know it is a bit late for 2.4 but what about weapons geared towards fury druids specifically if weapon selections are a concern?
Give the wereforms an inherent IAS multiplier instead of just extra IAS. When I played through I used a rabies druid (which was fun and pretty effective through normal/first 2 or 3 acts of NM and then respec'd to fury once I was around lvl 50. Haven't tested any WW/WB builds so far but this feels very disappointing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. thanks guys for responses. They specifically say they don't want it to be a nerf and will compensate in other ways. A true victory for build diversity. Thanks for compiling this spreadsheet! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poODRA0AS80. Just to add, feral rage has normal attack speed, so does first fury swing. Really glad the latter two finally have some viable builds. An example is a Stone Skin Itchy. Much easier to simply fix the calculations and then buff the skill. one quick question. Why not update the werewolf skill, or update the tooltips of weapon classes that druids naturally attack faster with so new players go ah ha! With such multipliers in place and an optimised wereform attack speed table, that addresses the other concerns where they can 'fix' the weapon-IAS being overinflated in the calculations while also opening up a lot more gearing options.It would still allow high IAS weapons + utility gear to reach the higher breakpoints, but now you get the option to go for lower IAS weapons and making up for the loss in IAS from other gear. The real question is - why change the IAS calculation in the first place? I think Feral Rage is a bit off though. You must log in or register to reply here. Makes SS a more viable levelling skill tree. I don't even think the end game reasons they list makes much sense. Normally this is enough to break phys immunities (normally at the 120% resist mark or so). Also is changing fury's location in the skill tree a possibility? Blizzard had the good sense to force them to use the DZ-A1-2HT animation with 23 base frames instead of 40-S3-H2H with 10 base frames, and they had double the good sense to double down on their good decision making and put out this statement about why it totally made sense to nerf the everloving fuck out of a build you could make out of items MFers throw away because they're untradeable to sane people. If the devs are worried about early game killing speed fury could be moved tolevel 12, 18 or 24 positions? While this change has reduced attack speed when using weapons with very high IAS. I can't go into a pub game without immediately seeing werewolves all yiffing away about the latest druid grove developments. Quote (MyNameIsHuman @ Mar 7 2022 11:48pm). They've fixed the calculations, but they haven't buffed the skill yet.
I wouldn't get auras on you personally. I need to throw away this club, and use this 2 handed axe, 2 handed mace or polearm? Haven't tried it yet in the PTR, but it did seem really slow in videos, compared to live. However, some boss packs will not be broken. This was a necessary tradeoff to end the Shapeshifter supremacy and allow Paladins and Sorceresses some time in the spotlight. Your primary weapons WIAS is plotted vertically, your equipments IAS is plotted horizontally. This should address the 'lower level confusion as the base attack speed for the wereforms wouldn't actually end up being slower. Show this on the tooltip. Explaining that in a tooltip would be difficult. The inherent phys immunity of the class adds onto the stone skin resistance making it like 200% or so. Not with the given costs. There is nothing in the game to tell them that they will attack far faster with a 2 handed large axe. yea i just do it morphed with all buffs up including motw, and i dont use fiends, but those two do count as gear ias, since when i was calculating/reading gear is i used to have acid fiend up, and ias fiend gives would get me over 507, when fiend died i would notice lower fpa. Optimise the bottom half of the wereform attack speed table to match un-shapeshifted breakpoints but keep the higher breakpoints from before (imo the cap could also be raised to allow 3-frames that was a lot of fun while it was 'broken'). You should know how lackluster the shapeshifter builds are already when compared to other melee builds. Hopefully they can hit a sweet spot without taking the fun out of the mad wolves and bears. Idk who youre dueling but druids have a huge disadvantage. I feel so dumb now for 'explaining' on the patch announcements threads that there is no way they meant the wereforms entire IAS table would be nerfed. Fury druid is already a late game build anyway due to the skill unlock at lvl 30. /r/Diablo is the greatest source for Diablo-related news and discussion on the Internet. wow, just wowRIP fury druids / WB druids. Could the werewolf skill tooltip be updated to highlight some of these ias quirks that may help clear the air? So i don't see why they're so concerned about the early game. ON THEESE EIAS TABLES ONLY FPA, EIAS AND ATTACKSPEED IS WRITTEN IN STONE. I see that last wish has no ias, so that seems like it sucks, but will I be able to attain a 5frame attack speed with stacked IAS from head/belt/gloves spots? It sure is refreshing to see that tomb reaver and ribcracker will no longer be at the top of the list of weapon choices in the game. why i asked this was because for my ww/summoner hybrid i plan to have a shaeled upped ribcricker which already has tremendously quick attack speed, but was wondering if items like nosferatu's coil or anything that adds increased attack speed was useless for this build? Werewolf attack was being calculated from a much lower baseline and weapon IAS was counted twice as much, so a very fast weapon with +20% IAS was effectively acting like +40% IAS and a fast weapon with +10% IAS counted as a fast weapon with +0% IAS. So they just believe the whole experience is slow. That's unbreakable to even Amp Damage. Actually, both Werebears and Werewolves can benifit from Off-Weapon IAS - it just seems like the Werewolves are less prone to benifits because a slvl 10 WW gives sufficient attack speed bonuses. [On-gear IAS ?]. Calculate Feral as a Normal Attack. Have the werewolf skill scale that multiplier up instead of giving IAS directly, with a base and a cap of let's say [On-gear IAS 1.5 up to 2.5], Give the werebear skill a static multiplier, let's say [On-gear IAS 2]. Shapeshifters already have a very different and wide viable weapon pool compared to other melee classes and not requiring IAS on offhand meant you could focus a lot of other utility bonuses instead. welp i hope this doesn't go to waste and that they change everything before the live build. This post was edited by gel87 on Mar 7 2022 03:11pm, https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=89662420&f=148, https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t/werebear-weak-now-in-ptrother-features/113264. Does the attack speed bonus from buffs like MotW get included in the Gear IAS section? I'm glad blizzard has their priorities in order. But if you happen to have 25% OIAS that pushes it to 7fpa. Can someone confirm this thing about taking weapon off before reading d2 stats for ias, i thought wias was included in gear ias. Decrep lowers phys resistance by 50%. someone help pls, werebear fhr break points i didnt use the calculater Don't forget to take your wep off and morph into bear before using d2stats to see gear ias. The devs are right, when a new werewolf takes his first swing with that club they start with it is painfully slow. Is this preparation for a future patch. If anything by doing this they're killing late game shapeshifting and taking away one of the few melee builds that are fun to play. The only exceptions are very fast weapons with +40% IAS or higher like BotD or Tomb Reaver. If they'd change the attack speed scaling on the werewolf skill to go up to like +80% at level 20 instead of remaining around 60% for the last 10 ranks, it would fix this. The only real way OIAS helps is if you don't worry about getting 5-4 fpa, and since Werewolves usually attack 1-2 frames faster than Werebears depending on skills, Werewolves don't really need to worry about OIAS. If this is an issue of players being confused why not just update weapon or skill tooltips to better alleviate confusion? You're right that they do attack faster with a 2H axe (or anything with a 'very fast' attack speed). I cant believe that this nerf is intended. Is this preparation for a future patch? There are very and i mean VERY FEW exeptions. ahh true, I see your point, no sense pumping my minions to overkill especially if that means struggling big time against bosses, PI's and so forth. A good calculator. Thankfully druids can now look forward to equipping the under-utilised grief runeword. If you're going to be fighting alongside your summons I'd focus on damage before an Aura that won't be a terribly large increase in damage. Well If go the Ribcracker route and simply make myself a decent boss killer/ fighter, I suppose I still need to solve the problem of physical immunes. The math behind it was just completely messed up. I need to throw away this club, and use this 2 handed axe, 2 handed mace or polearm?
If I understand this correctly, we need to hit 200 ias to get 6.94 atk/s with 2 typical handed druid weapon. Where is the table for STF. Stay awhile and listen. Why not update the werewolf skill, or update the tooltips of weapon classes to show that druids naturally attack faster with so new players go ah ha! I genuinely thought something like I described would be such a no-brainer to address the actual issues with the Class that I am left speechless by their initial attempt this was posted elsewhere - credit to tengaku, [2 4 PTR Fury Druid attack speed testing - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poODRA0AS80). L/CL: Skills "Lightning" und "Chain Lightning", 1hs: single-handed swinging weapons (swords, axes, clubs, maces, sceptre, hammers, throwing axes)HS: Skill "Holy Shield", 1hs: single-handed swinging weapons (swords, axes, clubs, maces, sceptre, hammers, throwing axes)stf/2ht: All two-handed weapons except swords, ' + breakpoints[breakpoints.length-15+k] + ', ' + document.myform.char.options[document.myform.char.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.charform.options[document.myform.charform.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.waffe.options[document.myform.waffe.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.zweitwaffe.options[document.myform.zweitwaffe.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.skill.options[document.myform.skill.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.IAS.options[document.myform.IAS.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.wIAS1.options[document.myform.wIAS1.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.wIAS1.options[document.myform.wIAS1.selectedIndex].text + ' / ' + document.myform.wIAS2.options[document.myform.wIAS2.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.fana.options[document.myform.fana.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.frenzy.options[document.myform.frenzy.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.wolf.options[document.myform.wolf.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.tempo.options[document.myform.tempo.selectedIndex].text + '. Honestly, the change to werewolf attack speed is a HUGE buff for 99% of weapons in the game. I'm going to say something pretty controversial in that I don't think early game werewolf druids needs much help. perhaps i should go with verdungo or string of ears instead, but i was thinking nosferatus was nice for the slowing effect, life leech, and increased attack speed. All the monsters would already be dead and there's no way to fight them PvP. Question if ias is only based on weapon speed how can a wolf reach 150ias? I am confused as to arent the devs aware that fast weapons were always the ones used for physical damage dealers. Shapeshifters already had a hard time keeping up with other end-game melee builds.The real question is - why change the IAS calculation in the first place? I need to know how to hit my breakpoints with an ogre mail (windhammer). Example: For Maul, if you use a Grief Phase blade with only 30 IAS added to the weapon, you would hit 8 Fpa.
Pretty much every viable Physical damage build relies on reaching the fastest breakpoint. Any of these changes seem less drastic then harming endgame high level druid play. There's a video someone posted here where they test weapon with attack speed +95% to +200% and the attack speed is always the same at least visually. As I said fury is the only attack now reaching any decent speed all other abilities frames are now trashed. the videos showing the changes are just atrociousdoesn't matter if you have Eth tomb reaver with 85 ias or wirts leg.The changes show the devs don't play/understand WW/WB at all, and killed the end game build to make those leveling in den of evil feel better, it's just absurdand the fact they replied to the feedback with saying it's working as intended and to just try out different weapons instead is hilarious and further proof of it. I know it is a bit late for 2.4 but what about weapons geared towards fury druids specifically if weapon selections are a concern?
Give the wereforms an inherent IAS multiplier instead of just extra IAS. When I played through I used a rabies druid (which was fun and pretty effective through normal/first 2 or 3 acts of NM and then respec'd to fury once I was around lvl 50. Haven't tested any WW/WB builds so far but this feels very disappointing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. thanks guys for responses. They specifically say they don't want it to be a nerf and will compensate in other ways. A true victory for build diversity. Thanks for compiling this spreadsheet! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poODRA0AS80. Just to add, feral rage has normal attack speed, so does first fury swing. Really glad the latter two finally have some viable builds. An example is a Stone Skin Itchy. Much easier to simply fix the calculations and then buff the skill. one quick question. Why not update the werewolf skill, or update the tooltips of weapon classes that druids naturally attack faster with so new players go ah ha! With such multipliers in place and an optimised wereform attack speed table, that addresses the other concerns where they can 'fix' the weapon-IAS being overinflated in the calculations while also opening up a lot more gearing options.It would still allow high IAS weapons + utility gear to reach the higher breakpoints, but now you get the option to go for lower IAS weapons and making up for the loss in IAS from other gear. The real question is - why change the IAS calculation in the first place? I think Feral Rage is a bit off though. You must log in or register to reply here. Makes SS a more viable levelling skill tree. I don't even think the end game reasons they list makes much sense. Normally this is enough to break phys immunities (normally at the 120% resist mark or so). Also is changing fury's location in the skill tree a possibility? Blizzard had the good sense to force them to use the DZ-A1-2HT animation with 23 base frames instead of 40-S3-H2H with 10 base frames, and they had double the good sense to double down on their good decision making and put out this statement about why it totally made sense to nerf the everloving fuck out of a build you could make out of items MFers throw away because they're untradeable to sane people. If the devs are worried about early game killing speed fury could be moved tolevel 12, 18 or 24 positions? While this change has reduced attack speed when using weapons with very high IAS. I can't go into a pub game without immediately seeing werewolves all yiffing away about the latest druid grove developments. Quote (MyNameIsHuman @ Mar 7 2022 11:48pm). They've fixed the calculations, but they haven't buffed the skill yet.
I wouldn't get auras on you personally. I need to throw away this club, and use this 2 handed axe, 2 handed mace or polearm? Haven't tried it yet in the PTR, but it did seem really slow in videos, compared to live. However, some boss packs will not be broken. This was a necessary tradeoff to end the Shapeshifter supremacy and allow Paladins and Sorceresses some time in the spotlight. Your primary weapons WIAS is plotted vertically, your equipments IAS is plotted horizontally. This should address the 'lower level confusion as the base attack speed for the wereforms wouldn't actually end up being slower. Show this on the tooltip. Explaining that in a tooltip would be difficult. The inherent phys immunity of the class adds onto the stone skin resistance making it like 200% or so. Not with the given costs. There is nothing in the game to tell them that they will attack far faster with a 2 handed large axe. yea i just do it morphed with all buffs up including motw, and i dont use fiends, but those two do count as gear ias, since when i was calculating/reading gear is i used to have acid fiend up, and ias fiend gives would get me over 507, when fiend died i would notice lower fpa. Optimise the bottom half of the wereform attack speed table to match un-shapeshifted breakpoints but keep the higher breakpoints from before (imo the cap could also be raised to allow 3-frames that was a lot of fun while it was 'broken'). You should know how lackluster the shapeshifter builds are already when compared to other melee builds. Hopefully they can hit a sweet spot without taking the fun out of the mad wolves and bears. Idk who youre dueling but druids have a huge disadvantage. I feel so dumb now for 'explaining' on the patch announcements threads that there is no way they meant the wereforms entire IAS table would be nerfed. Fury druid is already a late game build anyway due to the skill unlock at lvl 30. /r/Diablo is the greatest source for Diablo-related news and discussion on the Internet. wow, just wowRIP fury druids / WB druids. Could the werewolf skill tooltip be updated to highlight some of these ias quirks that may help clear the air? So i don't see why they're so concerned about the early game. ON THEESE EIAS TABLES ONLY FPA, EIAS AND ATTACKSPEED IS WRITTEN IN STONE. I see that last wish has no ias, so that seems like it sucks, but will I be able to attain a 5frame attack speed with stacked IAS from head/belt/gloves spots? It sure is refreshing to see that tomb reaver and ribcracker will no longer be at the top of the list of weapon choices in the game. why i asked this was because for my ww/summoner hybrid i plan to have a shaeled upped ribcricker which already has tremendously quick attack speed, but was wondering if items like nosferatu's coil or anything that adds increased attack speed was useless for this build? Werewolf attack was being calculated from a much lower baseline and weapon IAS was counted twice as much, so a very fast weapon with +20% IAS was effectively acting like +40% IAS and a fast weapon with +10% IAS counted as a fast weapon with +0% IAS. So they just believe the whole experience is slow. That's unbreakable to even Amp Damage. Actually, both Werebears and Werewolves can benifit from Off-Weapon IAS - it just seems like the Werewolves are less prone to benifits because a slvl 10 WW gives sufficient attack speed bonuses. [On-gear IAS ?]. Calculate Feral as a Normal Attack. Have the werewolf skill scale that multiplier up instead of giving IAS directly, with a base and a cap of let's say [On-gear IAS 1.5 up to 2.5], Give the werebear skill a static multiplier, let's say [On-gear IAS 2]. Shapeshifters already have a very different and wide viable weapon pool compared to other melee classes and not requiring IAS on offhand meant you could focus a lot of other utility bonuses instead. welp i hope this doesn't go to waste and that they change everything before the live build. This post was edited by gel87 on Mar 7 2022 03:11pm, https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=89662420&f=148, https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t/werebear-weak-now-in-ptrother-features/113264. Does the attack speed bonus from buffs like MotW get included in the Gear IAS section? I'm glad blizzard has their priorities in order. But if you happen to have 25% OIAS that pushes it to 7fpa. Can someone confirm this thing about taking weapon off before reading d2 stats for ias, i thought wias was included in gear ias. Decrep lowers phys resistance by 50%. someone help pls, werebear fhr break points i didnt use the calculater Don't forget to take your wep off and morph into bear before using d2stats to see gear ias. The devs are right, when a new werewolf takes his first swing with that club they start with it is painfully slow. Is this preparation for a future patch. If anything by doing this they're killing late game shapeshifting and taking away one of the few melee builds that are fun to play. The only exceptions are very fast weapons with +40% IAS or higher like BotD or Tomb Reaver. If they'd change the attack speed scaling on the werewolf skill to go up to like +80% at level 20 instead of remaining around 60% for the last 10 ranks, it would fix this. The only real way OIAS helps is if you don't worry about getting 5-4 fpa, and since Werewolves usually attack 1-2 frames faster than Werebears depending on skills, Werewolves don't really need to worry about OIAS. If this is an issue of players being confused why not just update weapon or skill tooltips to better alleviate confusion? You're right that they do attack faster with a 2H axe (or anything with a 'very fast' attack speed). I cant believe that this nerf is intended. Is this preparation for a future patch? There are very and i mean VERY FEW exeptions. ahh true, I see your point, no sense pumping my minions to overkill especially if that means struggling big time against bosses, PI's and so forth. A good calculator. Thankfully druids can now look forward to equipping the under-utilised grief runeword. If you're going to be fighting alongside your summons I'd focus on damage before an Aura that won't be a terribly large increase in damage. Well If go the Ribcracker route and simply make myself a decent boss killer/ fighter, I suppose I still need to solve the problem of physical immunes. The math behind it was just completely messed up. I need to throw away this club, and use this 2 handed axe, 2 handed mace or polearm?
If I understand this correctly, we need to hit 200 ias to get 6.94 atk/s with 2 typical handed druid weapon. Where is the table for STF. Stay awhile and listen. Why not update the werewolf skill, or update the tooltips of weapon classes to show that druids naturally attack faster with so new players go ah ha! I genuinely thought something like I described would be such a no-brainer to address the actual issues with the Class that I am left speechless by their initial attempt this was posted elsewhere - credit to tengaku, [2 4 PTR Fury Druid attack speed testing - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poODRA0AS80). L/CL: Skills "Lightning" und "Chain Lightning", 1hs: single-handed swinging weapons (swords, axes, clubs, maces, sceptre, hammers, throwing axes)HS: Skill "Holy Shield", 1hs: single-handed swinging weapons (swords, axes, clubs, maces, sceptre, hammers, throwing axes)stf/2ht: All two-handed weapons except swords, ' + breakpoints[breakpoints.length-15+k] + ', ' + document.myform.char.options[document.myform.char.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.charform.options[document.myform.charform.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.waffe.options[document.myform.waffe.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.zweitwaffe.options[document.myform.zweitwaffe.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.skill.options[document.myform.skill.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.IAS.options[document.myform.IAS.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.wIAS1.options[document.myform.wIAS1.selectedIndex].text + ', ' + document.myform.wIAS1.options[document.myform.wIAS1.selectedIndex].text + ' / ' + document.myform.wIAS2.options[document.myform.wIAS2.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.fana.options[document.myform.fana.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.frenzy.options[document.myform.frenzy.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.wolf.options[document.myform.wolf.selectedIndex].text + ', Level ' + document.myform.tempo.options[document.myform.tempo.selectedIndex].text + '. Honestly, the change to werewolf attack speed is a HUGE buff for 99% of weapons in the game. I'm going to say something pretty controversial in that I don't think early game werewolf druids needs much help. perhaps i should go with verdungo or string of ears instead, but i was thinking nosferatus was nice for the slowing effect, life leech, and increased attack speed. All the monsters would already be dead and there's no way to fight them PvP. Question if ias is only based on weapon speed how can a wolf reach 150ias? I am confused as to arent the devs aware that fast weapons were always the ones used for physical damage dealers. Shapeshifters already had a hard time keeping up with other end-game melee builds.The real question is - why change the IAS calculation in the first place? I need to know how to hit my breakpoints with an ogre mail (windhammer). Example: For Maul, if you use a Grief Phase blade with only 30 IAS added to the weapon, you would hit 8 Fpa.