"There is no truth!" So again I don't think this is a "big problem" for Calvinism. God doesn't really mean "world" in Jn 3:16, which takes three paragraphs to explain.Since most people are saved while young, the simplicity of the gospel message (as presented in Scripture) is very relevant to sharing our faith. It comes from the perspective of someone who is sympathetic to Calvary Chapel & particularly appreciates its commitment to Scripture (e.g. "Absolutely, but again I'm not sure what this has to do with Calvinism.
The event horizon threshold is not marked by anything that man does of His own volition such as a free will choice.In the case of 2 Peter 3:9 it is talking about both the immediate and the future. ", Be dilligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth (2 Tim. "Circular Reasoning", Hermeneutics 101: Old Testament Narratives. It is because of the omission of this clear and easy understanding of what elect means that the Arminian is allowed to make these silly arguments for works and legalism and universal atonement. (For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse): Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.(Romans 1:18-21)What has been revealed to the unrighteous man? Yes, I am 5-point. October 2020 I have been at a Calvary Chapel for over ten years and it has never been discussed.
[quote:4fcd88edc7][i:4fcd88edc7]Originally posted by webmaster[/i:4fcd88edc7], [quote:8365c9a818][i:8365c9a818]Originally posted by BrianLanier[/i:8365c9a818]. I can't get a decent Church to attend at the moment. Great advice to Calvary Chapel. In calvary chapel bookstores there are books by Dave Hunt and George Bryson arguing against Calvinism and purporting to show the dangers in Reformed theology. Once saved always saved or you lose your salvationwherever you stand the arguments for both can be supported in Scriptures. It would be expected that the order of regeneration in respect to faith would be explicitly stated as it is on the Calvary Chapel Bible College doctrinal statement, When a person repents of sin and receives Jesus Christ as personal Savior and Lord, trusting Him to save, that person is immediately born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit,. Both can say "repent and believe" or "trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins" without any hesitation.Whenever Calvinists try to explain their ideas, it always takes forever and need loads of "The Greek says this and the Hebrew says that.." It's a bit fishy, that's all.Both Calvinists and Arminians refer to the original languages, and rightly so. I have grown by leaps and bounds as a Christian at my Calvary Chapel church and the focus has always been about reading and receiving the Bible verse-by-verse, never cherry-picking scripture out of context for the purpose of fitting a chosen topic. Whatever may be said of the Arminian theology, no honest Calvinistic scholar would dare attempt to take Jesus from them. This confirms what God says in (John 3:35-36) THE FATHER LOVES THE SON, AND HAS GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HANDSBecause (John 6:44-47)says, AND THEY SHALL BE ALL TAUGHT OF GOD. There is one will and its God's will. [quote:f0d6757da8][i:f0d6757da8]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:f0d6757da8], [quote:100e782b3b][i:100e782b3b]Originally posted by Ianterrell[/i:100e782b3b]. The slippery slope of complacency. The atonement is no different and is in complete coherence, Calvary Chapel says, We believe that Jesus Christ died as a propitiation (a satisfaction of the righteous wrath of God against sin) for the whole world, and that He redeems and forgives all who will believe in the death and resurrection if Jesus Christ., Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, died for all men and for every man, so that he has obtained for them all, by his death on the cross, redemption, and the forgiveness of sins; yet that no one actually enjoys this forgiveness of sins, except the believer,. I think we should be open to arguments on both sides of the debate and allow each side to make their case, however wordy it may be.Since most people are saved while young, the simplicity of the gospel message (as presented in Scripture) is very relevant to sharing our faith.
June 2019 I think you were right to be concerned about Brians comments. You've also done a great job arguing for, and demonstrating how Christians ought to handle in-house debates (or any debate for that matter) by actually building legitimate support for your argument without making pejorative comments about the people you're arguing against. I presented theological evidence from Calvary Chapels theological standards, evidence from the words of many pastors contradicting themselves, and personal witness- which on the account of two or three witnesses is the righteous standard of Biblical Law. That is what I like about Calvary Chapel churches, at least the three that I have attended, is that they simply follow her the Bible says. Whenever Calvinists try to explain their ideas, it always takes forever and need loads of "The Greek says this and the Hebrew says that.." It's a bit fishy, that's all. We must always remember that there are not any three or four point Calvinists because removing one of the points makes you an Arminian. Second, truth is not determined by length. The claims and goals of Calvary Chapel to be in the middle of each position have failed. For example, if a cultist presents a proof text for their position it may take me 10 minutes to explain the context and background in order to refute them. It is also why I have difficulty believing any leader in any church that preaches any part of Arminianism is called to preach or be a leader in the church at all. That is the way it was at our Church. "They are kind of like cultists. EVERY MAN THEREFORE THAT HATH HEARD, AND HATH LEARNED OF THE FATHER, COMETH UNTO ME. I have recently attended a Calvary Chapel for approximately 100 hours and then have Met and fellowshipped with many Godly Christians there. Of course it's a hard verse because it contradicts their theories. Calvary Chapel claims to have a hybrid theology in which the best of the both sides of this dispute are taken and molded together. "You know I've often said about Calvinism guysCalvinism is Christianity without Jesus because they leave Jesus out of the equation. It is written in the prophets, AND THEY SHALL BE ALL TAUGHT OF GOD. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Probably one of the most frequent logical fallacies you'll come across in debates or dialogue is referred to as "circular reasoning Maybe you've heard the parable of the six blind men and the elephant. 2:15), John Calvin: Knowledge of God, Knowledge of Self, Logical Fallacy: "Begging the Question" a.k.a. Why do Arminians hate me for that. The simplicity of the gospel message can be preached by both Arminians and Calvinists. The event of the great flood did not happen until the flood happened, not when God announced it would happen over a hundred years earlier. The goal of this blog is to provide brief, deep and engaging posts about theology, everyday life and other stuff as well. That's all there is to it. This is a prime example of what Calvary Chapels claim to believe. One example of how a child can and should be able to understand it --last week, I was reading from Judges with our son - just turned 7 -- and we were working out where Jesus appeared in His pre-incarnate form. It isnt wrong to desire unity in the Calvary Chapel denomination. The five points of Calvinism represent the major tenets of Calvinistic thinking. "First, I understand being limited for time. Some Calvary Chapels never mention the subject of Calvinism. And our son ain't a genius! Equipping the Church, Engaging the Culture. Yes, I am not a dispensational premillennialist. But woke us more like the Galatian issue. I wanted to say a few things in response to these comments:We are not to debate about these matters because they are not matters of doctrine that deny the deity of Jesus Christ. I also just attended a Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Ford a conference for proximity 20 hours listen to 10 pastors and they did attacks cabinets like Augustine in Calvin himself repeatedly with snicker rain and shouting and just pure hatred one pastor who happen to be the pastor's church I attended was the only pastor who preached in taught as an expository and you was really great all the rest we're like the guy who jumped up on his horse Android off in a thousand different directions the preaching and teaching was awful boring had no coherent seen all Cosumnes to it whatsoever these people mention these leaders Chuck Smith dozens of times and even his wife and how Freight of her they were this is a coat like type of atmosphere and it turned out my pastor is a fan attic, a tyrant a dictator and a hypocrite with slander me and falsely accused me beyond belief and told me not to come back even though I told him I believe 100 % in human responsibility and God sovereignty but he was not satisfied because I gave a book to someone at the church by aw pink oval commentary on Elijah which not has nothing to do with free will or Armenian isn't more Calvin as them and so I told him I would not hand out any books anymore and he said that wasn't good enough and I was not welcome to ever come back again now I know he will lie to the people there that I met and probably tell them something like we agree to disagree or you may just ignore the fact that I'm not even a tendon there anymore at his demands not mine man is also a wire a lion hypocrite he told me because I had read Jeremiah and Ezekiel on all the study notes for 55 days 5 , 6 hours a day and I had read 1st John 45 times in 40 days that I was a backs Linden person because I was still not doing that that he Bragg that he read the Bible 6 times a year and then he lied about it in front of another remember when I asked him why he called me a back slider because I didn't read read the Bible 6 times of the year like he did and he lied and said he never said that so he's also a liar these people are wonderful people but the leader it at this cc is a megalomaniac. Fast forward 22 years later to 2014 and John MacArthur says from the pulpit about Calvary Chapel: Not only is it Arminian, which of course is wrong, but its driven by experience and therefore has a weak view of scripture..
(1 John 4:19), Anonymous,Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have a morning worship and and evening worship. Once saved always saved or you lose your salvationwherever you stand the arguments for both can be supported in Scriptures.Both cannot be supported from Scripture unless you are willing to admit contradictions. Although there are churches in which even though there may be a split right down the middle of the congregation on this subject there remains no division, Calvary Chapel hasn't achieved such an environment. Because they try to answer as many questions as possible rather than answer questions thoroughly they prevent themselves from getting too in depth.
Chuck definitely was not a Calvinist. Oh yea, and the CC people own the property so if the whole congregation wants to separate. Calvary Chapel is inherently Arminian in theology and are not welcoming to their Calvinistic brothers as Chuck Smith claimed in Calvary Chapels official position. I hate to revive a dead thread, but what is "Calvary Chapel" and who is Chuck Smith? I wasn't expecting a response to an 'old' post. , attempts to straddle the fence on the debate: Calvary Chapel has been known for striking a balance between extremes on controversial theological issues that have often caused division rather than unity in the body of Christ. Keep the main things as the main things. We should always be willing to re-examine our own traditions and interpretations in light of the truth of Scripture. There is no free will. Anthea,Thank you for commenting and sharing your thoughts. As a home educating mother, I *must* be able to explain the Bible simply and fully.I agree, but again I am failing to see what this has to do with Calvinism. If a person were debating whether it is okay to sleep with their girlfriend or live with someone out of wedlock or abortion, then you engage them in a debate. If anything else I want to have somewhere to keep my thoughts. If they replied, "Well my answer is shorter than yours" or "Well my position takes the verse at face value" I don't think we would accept that as an adequate answer.Third, the Calvinist could just as easily present verses that Arminians need to explain that do not fit their theology at first reading. all the rest we're like the guy who jumped up on his horse and rode off in a thousand different directions preaching and teaching was awful boring. Satan loves this because we neglect to focus on what is true and noble. Ive seen some messy interaction between Calvary and Calvinists. The Puritan Board is a forum dedicated to the discussion of Christian theology in a Confessionally Reformed context. HelloThanks for replying to my comment. May God richly bless your ministry! Dear Calvinists, please read the entire New Testament with an open heart. In other words, Brian's misleading and inaccurate comments have nothing to do with how much time he had to utter them! The gospel is simple to understand, a child can repent and believe.However, thanks to your critique, I hunted down some audio files and articles to help find out what scripture says.Best WishesAnthea. We are dedicated to our historic Creeds and Confessions because we believe they are faithful to the Scriptures. Many doctrines such as original sin, salvation by grace through faith, etc., do no directly deal with the deity of Christ but are still worth debating.Calvary takes a neutral stance because they are not hard lined for either Armenianism or Calvanism since there are Scriptures that discuss choice, will and predestination.I don't know that I would classify their stance as neutral, especially given the comments by Brian and other calvary chapel leaders.
All are drawn to the son but not all go through the son the TRUTH, WAY, and LIFE to approach the Father.Now we know that all have been drawn to Christ but the Father would not draw all men to Christ unless He died for all. JeremiahI spend my days working as an accountant, hanging out with my wife & son, and learning more about God. This was also reviewed by several CC pastors before posting. With the elect there is a clear mark of delineation I call the event horizon where one of the elect that are unregenerate becomes regenerate. I wrote a book (https://www.chrysostominstitute.org/product-page/exactly-backwards) that attempts to address some of the concerns raised by here by Jeremiah.
Usually the Calvinists were cage stage. How can anyone that cant understand the true Gospel be called to lead others in Christ and preach His word? "Now when I've brought this (verse) up to Calvinists they tend to say, 'Well that's a hard verse, we don't really know what it means, let's not talk about it.' 1 Corinthians 2 and Romans 9 are so clear when read in context. Calvinist that I have spoken with have used this verse to say that only those the fathers draws will be saved. God does not hate you for causing division anymore than He hated Paul for writing the beloved epistles to the Galatians and Corinthians to correct them. This is where (John 14:6) comes into play Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME. It's like a Church of Christ I went to recently, still out there teaching that you go to hell if you play instruments in church, all 3 of them. Many Reformed folk have gone Woke. If you happen to be the Calvinist, stop trying to teach the doctrines of grace with the absence of grace. Chuck Smith - their pope - is a full fledged Arminian. JavaScript is disabled. Joe, very good insight. Some Calvinists take the ideas of a man (Calvin, or some modern exponent of Calvinism) and then make the Bible impenetrable to a degree that is unwarranted.I think this can happen to those on both sides of the debate. I honesty have not read anyone post so negatively about a Calvary Chapel before and it is honestly a bit surprising to see someone bagging on a church that teaches straight from the Bible without the dogma that so many denominations live and breathe by, but perhaps some find comfort in their manmade rules.
We need to not treat non-essentials as essentials. I am not sure how this applies to Calvinism. With the world being how it is where we are being told that embracing sin is kindness, truth is relative to your feelings, racism is justice, the world is tearing down the family structure and embracing neo-marxist idealogy,etc, etc, etc. The last Church I attended for about a year and a half after my divorce was a Horizon Fellowship. How many times have you heard that before? It's always hard to answer a question in 3 mins or so. Both Calvary Chapel and the Articles of the remonstrance claim an unlimited atonement. I put your quotes in bold below again so you know what exactly I am responding to.My beef is with Calvinist bloggers/disputers, who think that good explanations must *always* be wordy e.g.
The public slaughter of the Calvinistic view with no attempt to rightly represent the theology correctly, surrounded by snickers and insulting remarks is the antithesis of welcoming. After returning to scripture for many years, I emerged as one of those dreaded Calvinists. No longer is the reformed brothers attempt to explain, exhort, encourage, or evangelize accepted.
I dont recall ever hearing Chuck say that. who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.(1 Timothy 2:4-6)Lastly the bible says in (John 8:32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.Now my question becomes if Christ did not die for all men why was the truth given to all men? The abuse that conjures up in the wake of the anti-Calvinist sentiment leaves the Calvinist brother inside of the Calvary Chapel treated as a second class Christian at best. Calvary Chapel Golden Springs leaves the order of faith and regeneration a mystery as to what exactly they believe. To which the reformed community would say Amen, and Arminian theology would also see no problem with, as it says in Article 5, Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive, keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled, nor plucked out of Christ's hands,. Although it is vague and not very specific, it has a Calvinistic sound to it and seems to imply the inability of man to turn to Christ due to an enslaved human will. Disagreements- YES! You did a great job explaining your observations, objections and the Calvinist view. The Sovereignty of God by Arthur Pink. This causes them to pick a side instead of taking the post-modern, no-truth, kumbaya'n route. On top of that I also believe that Jesus is currently reigning from His seat at the right hand of the Father (Psalm 110). The aggressive rebukes on the Calvinist brother who dares question his pastor. How do I do it? Calvary Chapel should continue in its best intentions to run towards the heart of Christ in a reckless abandon. We adhere firmly to the biblical teaching of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. But again, a "simple" understanding is not always a correct one. The teachings break down the verses and explain Hebrew and Greek Word origins, and historical relevance, etc., and as a growing Christian I have done that myself. The property stays CC. "Well you know with a Calvinistic view man does not have a will. I spent 7 years with Greg Laurie. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It is meant to be understood because we are meant to respond to it.Both Calvinists and Arminians would hold to the perspicuity of Scripture, but this does not mean that every passage is equally clear. Satan loves this because we neglect to focus on what is true and noble.Yes, and this is why the comments by Brian I think are unhelpful. Jasso History Whether you are a Calvinist or not does not determine whether you are a Christian and being an Armenianist over Calvinist does not necessarily cause anyone to go to hell. As the scripture says in (1 John 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: AND NOT FOR OUR ONLY, BUT THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.(2 Peter 2:1)The Father would not have drawn all men unless He desired that all me to be saved because the bible says. The man is also a liar a lying hypocrite he told me because I had read Jeremiah and Ezekiel and all the study notes for 55 days 5 to 6 hours a day and I had read first John 40 times in 45 days that I was backslidden because I was still not doing that . Take time to dissect his/her position and figure out what he/she really believes before you jump to conclusions that are not true. People come and go, especially since we gather near an Air Force base, and Ive remained friends with many who have moved on for various reasons. There is nothing more contraire in terms than an arrogant calvinist. God and His truth will always win. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Isn't this clear? Calvary Chapel should recognize that Gods heart is revealed through His scriptures and His doctrines. The Arminians also end on an uncertain note when they concluded Article 5 by saying, Whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginnings of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scriptures before they can teach it with the full persuasion of their minds.. Rumor has it that He and Larry Taylor have gone seperate ways over an issue having to do with the philosophy of how the bible college should be run. [quote:8631e5b913]In addition, we reject "5-point Calvinism". Strict five point Calvinists believe that only the elect can be saved and that God has elected others to spend eternity in hell. I'm not the smartest person in the world but I come from a horrible background and believe that Jesus Christ reached down from heaven and saved me. Plurality of elders isn't commanded explicitly, but plurality is seen I think rather clearly in the apostles writings. Very friendly congregation. one Pastor what happened to be the church I attended was the only Pastor who preached and taught as an Expositor and he was really great.
The lines are redrawn. In 2011 at a Pastors Conference Chuck Smith said, There is no room in the Calvary Chapel movement for Calvinist pastors., Calvary Chapel has no desire to be dogmatic, in areas where Bible believers and teachers have disagreed.. Excellent article, this was a well structured critique.
HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN ME FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:8-9) Now one may be Tempted to say if the father had drawn all men to Jesus then all saw Jesus and therefore have seen the Father but that is not the case. PART 2Now I know many if not all that read this and get to this point are shaking their head and saying we cannot see the Father or I have not seen the Father but the bible says otherwise. He started the "movement." Chuck began the movement out in California in the mid 60's, better known as "The Jesus Movement". But some of the contradictions left me in a faith crisis by the 1990s. I appreciate that towards the end of your writing you finally admit that not all Calvary Chapels are as you stated and that some in fact do not even discuss Calvinism. As a home educating mother, I *must* be able to explain the Bible simply and fully. Why I Left Series, I must use great plainness of speech, and treat my dearest friends on earth with the greatest simplicity, faithfulness, and freedom, leaving the consequences of all to God. - George Whitefield // Letter to John Wesley Dec. 24, 1740, Most of you probably know somebody who left your church for a number of reasons.
The event horizon threshold is not marked by anything that man does of His own volition such as a free will choice.In the case of 2 Peter 3:9 it is talking about both the immediate and the future. ", Be dilligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth (2 Tim. "Circular Reasoning", Hermeneutics 101: Old Testament Narratives. It is because of the omission of this clear and easy understanding of what elect means that the Arminian is allowed to make these silly arguments for works and legalism and universal atonement. (For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse): Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.(Romans 1:18-21)What has been revealed to the unrighteous man? Yes, I am 5-point. October 2020 I have been at a Calvary Chapel for over ten years and it has never been discussed.
[quote:4fcd88edc7][i:4fcd88edc7]Originally posted by webmaster[/i:4fcd88edc7], [quote:8365c9a818][i:8365c9a818]Originally posted by BrianLanier[/i:8365c9a818]. I can't get a decent Church to attend at the moment. Great advice to Calvary Chapel. In calvary chapel bookstores there are books by Dave Hunt and George Bryson arguing against Calvinism and purporting to show the dangers in Reformed theology. Once saved always saved or you lose your salvationwherever you stand the arguments for both can be supported in Scriptures. It would be expected that the order of regeneration in respect to faith would be explicitly stated as it is on the Calvary Chapel Bible College doctrinal statement, When a person repents of sin and receives Jesus Christ as personal Savior and Lord, trusting Him to save, that person is immediately born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit,. Both can say "repent and believe" or "trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins" without any hesitation.Whenever Calvinists try to explain their ideas, it always takes forever and need loads of "The Greek says this and the Hebrew says that.." It's a bit fishy, that's all.Both Calvinists and Arminians refer to the original languages, and rightly so. I have grown by leaps and bounds as a Christian at my Calvary Chapel church and the focus has always been about reading and receiving the Bible verse-by-verse, never cherry-picking scripture out of context for the purpose of fitting a chosen topic. Whatever may be said of the Arminian theology, no honest Calvinistic scholar would dare attempt to take Jesus from them. This confirms what God says in (John 3:35-36) THE FATHER LOVES THE SON, AND HAS GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HANDSBecause (John 6:44-47)says, AND THEY SHALL BE ALL TAUGHT OF GOD. There is one will and its God's will. [quote:f0d6757da8][i:f0d6757da8]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:f0d6757da8], [quote:100e782b3b][i:100e782b3b]Originally posted by Ianterrell[/i:100e782b3b]. The slippery slope of complacency. The atonement is no different and is in complete coherence, Calvary Chapel says, We believe that Jesus Christ died as a propitiation (a satisfaction of the righteous wrath of God against sin) for the whole world, and that He redeems and forgives all who will believe in the death and resurrection if Jesus Christ., Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, died for all men and for every man, so that he has obtained for them all, by his death on the cross, redemption, and the forgiveness of sins; yet that no one actually enjoys this forgiveness of sins, except the believer,. I think we should be open to arguments on both sides of the debate and allow each side to make their case, however wordy it may be.Since most people are saved while young, the simplicity of the gospel message (as presented in Scripture) is very relevant to sharing our faith.
June 2019 I think you were right to be concerned about Brians comments. You've also done a great job arguing for, and demonstrating how Christians ought to handle in-house debates (or any debate for that matter) by actually building legitimate support for your argument without making pejorative comments about the people you're arguing against. I presented theological evidence from Calvary Chapels theological standards, evidence from the words of many pastors contradicting themselves, and personal witness- which on the account of two or three witnesses is the righteous standard of Biblical Law. That is what I like about Calvary Chapel churches, at least the three that I have attended, is that they simply follow her the Bible says. Whenever Calvinists try to explain their ideas, it always takes forever and need loads of "The Greek says this and the Hebrew says that.." It's a bit fishy, that's all. We must always remember that there are not any three or four point Calvinists because removing one of the points makes you an Arminian. Second, truth is not determined by length. The claims and goals of Calvary Chapel to be in the middle of each position have failed. For example, if a cultist presents a proof text for their position it may take me 10 minutes to explain the context and background in order to refute them. It is also why I have difficulty believing any leader in any church that preaches any part of Arminianism is called to preach or be a leader in the church at all. That is the way it was at our Church. "They are kind of like cultists. EVERY MAN THEREFORE THAT HATH HEARD, AND HATH LEARNED OF THE FATHER, COMETH UNTO ME. I have recently attended a Calvary Chapel for approximately 100 hours and then have Met and fellowshipped with many Godly Christians there. Of course it's a hard verse because it contradicts their theories. Calvary Chapel claims to have a hybrid theology in which the best of the both sides of this dispute are taken and molded together. "You know I've often said about Calvinism guysCalvinism is Christianity without Jesus because they leave Jesus out of the equation. It is written in the prophets, AND THEY SHALL BE ALL TAUGHT OF GOD. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Probably one of the most frequent logical fallacies you'll come across in debates or dialogue is referred to as "circular reasoning Maybe you've heard the parable of the six blind men and the elephant. 2:15), John Calvin: Knowledge of God, Knowledge of Self, Logical Fallacy: "Begging the Question" a.k.a. Why do Arminians hate me for that. The simplicity of the gospel message can be preached by both Arminians and Calvinists. The event of the great flood did not happen until the flood happened, not when God announced it would happen over a hundred years earlier. The goal of this blog is to provide brief, deep and engaging posts about theology, everyday life and other stuff as well. That's all there is to it. This is a prime example of what Calvary Chapels claim to believe. One example of how a child can and should be able to understand it --last week, I was reading from Judges with our son - just turned 7 -- and we were working out where Jesus appeared in His pre-incarnate form. It isnt wrong to desire unity in the Calvary Chapel denomination. The five points of Calvinism represent the major tenets of Calvinistic thinking. "First, I understand being limited for time. Some Calvary Chapels never mention the subject of Calvinism. And our son ain't a genius! Equipping the Church, Engaging the Culture. Yes, I am not a dispensational premillennialist. But woke us more like the Galatian issue. I wanted to say a few things in response to these comments:We are not to debate about these matters because they are not matters of doctrine that deny the deity of Jesus Christ. I also just attended a Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Ford a conference for proximity 20 hours listen to 10 pastors and they did attacks cabinets like Augustine in Calvin himself repeatedly with snicker rain and shouting and just pure hatred one pastor who happen to be the pastor's church I attended was the only pastor who preached in taught as an expository and you was really great all the rest we're like the guy who jumped up on his horse Android off in a thousand different directions the preaching and teaching was awful boring had no coherent seen all Cosumnes to it whatsoever these people mention these leaders Chuck Smith dozens of times and even his wife and how Freight of her they were this is a coat like type of atmosphere and it turned out my pastor is a fan attic, a tyrant a dictator and a hypocrite with slander me and falsely accused me beyond belief and told me not to come back even though I told him I believe 100 % in human responsibility and God sovereignty but he was not satisfied because I gave a book to someone at the church by aw pink oval commentary on Elijah which not has nothing to do with free will or Armenian isn't more Calvin as them and so I told him I would not hand out any books anymore and he said that wasn't good enough and I was not welcome to ever come back again now I know he will lie to the people there that I met and probably tell them something like we agree to disagree or you may just ignore the fact that I'm not even a tendon there anymore at his demands not mine man is also a wire a lion hypocrite he told me because I had read Jeremiah and Ezekiel on all the study notes for 55 days 5 , 6 hours a day and I had read 1st John 45 times in 40 days that I was a backs Linden person because I was still not doing that that he Bragg that he read the Bible 6 times a year and then he lied about it in front of another remember when I asked him why he called me a back slider because I didn't read read the Bible 6 times of the year like he did and he lied and said he never said that so he's also a liar these people are wonderful people but the leader it at this cc is a megalomaniac. Fast forward 22 years later to 2014 and John MacArthur says from the pulpit about Calvary Chapel: Not only is it Arminian, which of course is wrong, but its driven by experience and therefore has a weak view of scripture..
Chuck definitely was not a Calvinist. Oh yea, and the CC people own the property so if the whole congregation wants to separate. Calvary Chapel is inherently Arminian in theology and are not welcoming to their Calvinistic brothers as Chuck Smith claimed in Calvary Chapels official position. I hate to revive a dead thread, but what is "Calvary Chapel" and who is Chuck Smith? I wasn't expecting a response to an 'old' post. , attempts to straddle the fence on the debate: Calvary Chapel has been known for striking a balance between extremes on controversial theological issues that have often caused division rather than unity in the body of Christ. Keep the main things as the main things. We should always be willing to re-examine our own traditions and interpretations in light of the truth of Scripture. There is no free will. Anthea,Thank you for commenting and sharing your thoughts. As a home educating mother, I *must* be able to explain the Bible simply and fully.I agree, but again I am failing to see what this has to do with Calvinism. If a person were debating whether it is okay to sleep with their girlfriend or live with someone out of wedlock or abortion, then you engage them in a debate. If anything else I want to have somewhere to keep my thoughts. If they replied, "Well my answer is shorter than yours" or "Well my position takes the verse at face value" I don't think we would accept that as an adequate answer.Third, the Calvinist could just as easily present verses that Arminians need to explain that do not fit their theology at first reading. all the rest we're like the guy who jumped up on his horse and rode off in a thousand different directions preaching and teaching was awful boring. Satan loves this because we neglect to focus on what is true and noble. Ive seen some messy interaction between Calvary and Calvinists. The Puritan Board is a forum dedicated to the discussion of Christian theology in a Confessionally Reformed context. HelloThanks for replying to my comment. May God richly bless your ministry! Dear Calvinists, please read the entire New Testament with an open heart. In other words, Brian's misleading and inaccurate comments have nothing to do with how much time he had to utter them! The gospel is simple to understand, a child can repent and believe.However, thanks to your critique, I hunted down some audio files and articles to help find out what scripture says.Best WishesAnthea. We are dedicated to our historic Creeds and Confessions because we believe they are faithful to the Scriptures. Many doctrines such as original sin, salvation by grace through faith, etc., do no directly deal with the deity of Christ but are still worth debating.Calvary takes a neutral stance because they are not hard lined for either Armenianism or Calvanism since there are Scriptures that discuss choice, will and predestination.I don't know that I would classify their stance as neutral, especially given the comments by Brian and other calvary chapel leaders.
All are drawn to the son but not all go through the son the TRUTH, WAY, and LIFE to approach the Father.Now we know that all have been drawn to Christ but the Father would not draw all men to Christ unless He died for all. JeremiahI spend my days working as an accountant, hanging out with my wife & son, and learning more about God. This was also reviewed by several CC pastors before posting. With the elect there is a clear mark of delineation I call the event horizon where one of the elect that are unregenerate becomes regenerate. I wrote a book (https://www.chrysostominstitute.org/product-page/exactly-backwards) that attempts to address some of the concerns raised by here by Jeremiah.
Usually the Calvinists were cage stage. How can anyone that cant understand the true Gospel be called to lead others in Christ and preach His word? "Now when I've brought this (verse) up to Calvinists they tend to say, 'Well that's a hard verse, we don't really know what it means, let's not talk about it.' 1 Corinthians 2 and Romans 9 are so clear when read in context. Calvinist that I have spoken with have used this verse to say that only those the fathers draws will be saved. God does not hate you for causing division anymore than He hated Paul for writing the beloved epistles to the Galatians and Corinthians to correct them. This is where (John 14:6) comes into play Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME. It's like a Church of Christ I went to recently, still out there teaching that you go to hell if you play instruments in church, all 3 of them. Many Reformed folk have gone Woke. If you happen to be the Calvinist, stop trying to teach the doctrines of grace with the absence of grace. Chuck Smith - their pope - is a full fledged Arminian. JavaScript is disabled. Joe, very good insight. Some Calvinists take the ideas of a man (Calvin, or some modern exponent of Calvinism) and then make the Bible impenetrable to a degree that is unwarranted.I think this can happen to those on both sides of the debate. I honesty have not read anyone post so negatively about a Calvary Chapel before and it is honestly a bit surprising to see someone bagging on a church that teaches straight from the Bible without the dogma that so many denominations live and breathe by, but perhaps some find comfort in their manmade rules.
We need to not treat non-essentials as essentials. I am not sure how this applies to Calvinism. With the world being how it is where we are being told that embracing sin is kindness, truth is relative to your feelings, racism is justice, the world is tearing down the family structure and embracing neo-marxist idealogy,etc, etc, etc. The last Church I attended for about a year and a half after my divorce was a Horizon Fellowship. How many times have you heard that before? It's always hard to answer a question in 3 mins or so. Both Calvary Chapel and the Articles of the remonstrance claim an unlimited atonement. I put your quotes in bold below again so you know what exactly I am responding to.My beef is with Calvinist bloggers/disputers, who think that good explanations must *always* be wordy e.g.
The public slaughter of the Calvinistic view with no attempt to rightly represent the theology correctly, surrounded by snickers and insulting remarks is the antithesis of welcoming. After returning to scripture for many years, I emerged as one of those dreaded Calvinists. No longer is the reformed brothers attempt to explain, exhort, encourage, or evangelize accepted.
I dont recall ever hearing Chuck say that. who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.(1 Timothy 2:4-6)Lastly the bible says in (John 8:32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.Now my question becomes if Christ did not die for all men why was the truth given to all men? The abuse that conjures up in the wake of the anti-Calvinist sentiment leaves the Calvinist brother inside of the Calvary Chapel treated as a second class Christian at best. Calvary Chapel Golden Springs leaves the order of faith and regeneration a mystery as to what exactly they believe. To which the reformed community would say Amen, and Arminian theology would also see no problem with, as it says in Article 5, Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive, keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled, nor plucked out of Christ's hands,. Although it is vague and not very specific, it has a Calvinistic sound to it and seems to imply the inability of man to turn to Christ due to an enslaved human will. Disagreements- YES! You did a great job explaining your observations, objections and the Calvinist view. The Sovereignty of God by Arthur Pink. This causes them to pick a side instead of taking the post-modern, no-truth, kumbaya'n route. On top of that I also believe that Jesus is currently reigning from His seat at the right hand of the Father (Psalm 110). The aggressive rebukes on the Calvinist brother who dares question his pastor. How do I do it? Calvary Chapel should continue in its best intentions to run towards the heart of Christ in a reckless abandon. We adhere firmly to the biblical teaching of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. But again, a "simple" understanding is not always a correct one. The teachings break down the verses and explain Hebrew and Greek Word origins, and historical relevance, etc., and as a growing Christian I have done that myself. The property stays CC. "Well you know with a Calvinistic view man does not have a will. I spent 7 years with Greg Laurie. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It is meant to be understood because we are meant to respond to it.Both Calvinists and Arminians would hold to the perspicuity of Scripture, but this does not mean that every passage is equally clear. Satan loves this because we neglect to focus on what is true and noble.Yes, and this is why the comments by Brian I think are unhelpful. Jasso History Whether you are a Calvinist or not does not determine whether you are a Christian and being an Armenianist over Calvinist does not necessarily cause anyone to go to hell. As the scripture says in (1 John 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: AND NOT FOR OUR ONLY, BUT THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.(2 Peter 2:1)The Father would not have drawn all men unless He desired that all me to be saved because the bible says. The man is also a liar a lying hypocrite he told me because I had read Jeremiah and Ezekiel and all the study notes for 55 days 5 to 6 hours a day and I had read first John 40 times in 45 days that I was backslidden because I was still not doing that . Take time to dissect his/her position and figure out what he/she really believes before you jump to conclusions that are not true. People come and go, especially since we gather near an Air Force base, and Ive remained friends with many who have moved on for various reasons. There is nothing more contraire in terms than an arrogant calvinist. God and His truth will always win. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Isn't this clear? Calvary Chapel should recognize that Gods heart is revealed through His scriptures and His doctrines. The Arminians also end on an uncertain note when they concluded Article 5 by saying, Whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginnings of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scriptures before they can teach it with the full persuasion of their minds.. Rumor has it that He and Larry Taylor have gone seperate ways over an issue having to do with the philosophy of how the bible college should be run. [quote:8631e5b913]In addition, we reject "5-point Calvinism". Strict five point Calvinists believe that only the elect can be saved and that God has elected others to spend eternity in hell. I'm not the smartest person in the world but I come from a horrible background and believe that Jesus Christ reached down from heaven and saved me. Plurality of elders isn't commanded explicitly, but plurality is seen I think rather clearly in the apostles writings. Very friendly congregation. one Pastor what happened to be the church I attended was the only Pastor who preached and taught as an Expositor and he was really great.
The lines are redrawn. In 2011 at a Pastors Conference Chuck Smith said, There is no room in the Calvary Chapel movement for Calvinist pastors., Calvary Chapel has no desire to be dogmatic, in areas where Bible believers and teachers have disagreed.. Excellent article, this was a well structured critique.
HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN ME FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:8-9) Now one may be Tempted to say if the father had drawn all men to Jesus then all saw Jesus and therefore have seen the Father but that is not the case. PART 2Now I know many if not all that read this and get to this point are shaking their head and saying we cannot see the Father or I have not seen the Father but the bible says otherwise. He started the "movement." Chuck began the movement out in California in the mid 60's, better known as "The Jesus Movement". But some of the contradictions left me in a faith crisis by the 1990s. I appreciate that towards the end of your writing you finally admit that not all Calvary Chapels are as you stated and that some in fact do not even discuss Calvinism. As a home educating mother, I *must* be able to explain the Bible simply and fully. Why I Left Series, I must use great plainness of speech, and treat my dearest friends on earth with the greatest simplicity, faithfulness, and freedom, leaving the consequences of all to God. - George Whitefield // Letter to John Wesley Dec. 24, 1740, Most of you probably know somebody who left your church for a number of reasons.